Alpinet lists - alpinet2k

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From: "mdp727@yahoo.com [alpinet2k]" <alpinet2k@yahoogroups.com>
To: alpinet2k@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 3: 22 PM
Subject: Re: [a] Re: Cum se putea =C8=99i acum nu se mai poate =E2=80=93 O=
m pe munt e
=20=20=20
Salut Radu!
---In alpinet2k@yahoogroups.com, <office@...> wrote:
> Refugiile "de creasta / de supravietuire" sunt pt adapostire pe vreme f. =
proasta neprevazuta, cand sunt surprinsi unii plecati in tura de o zi, fara=
cort la ei, sau surprinsi de noapte, sau pt cei care au campat in apropier=
e si furtuna le darama / rupe cortul.... Nu sunt pt cazare=C2=A0gratis prog=
ramata...=C2=A0
Da, dar cine ii opreste pe cei care vor sa le foloseasca "pt cazare=C2=A0gr=
atis programata"-------Nu ii opreste nimeni. De fapt si eu mi-am planuit m=
ulte ture in care sa dorm in vreun refugiu. Alta e ideea si asta tine de bu=
nul simt: chiar daca iti planuiesti sa dormi la un refugiu, cand vine cinev=
a care foloseste refugiul ca loc de refugiere in caz de vreme proasta etc (=
ce a spus Radu), ii/le faci loc si eventual ii ajuti cu ceva mancare calda =
sau cu haine uscate (cat ai). Asta inseamna sa fii =E2=80=9Dom de/pe munte=
=E2=80=9D.------->... cea mai mare parte dintre cabane nu PRODUC ci CONSUM=
A, fiid masiv subventionate de cluburile alpine care le detin. Ideea ca o c=
abana turistica montana de principiu ar trebui sa fie rentabila este o grav=
a neintelegere...
Ok, deci, daca bine inteleg explicatia ta, tu/CCN + alte cluburi din domeni=
u, ar trebui sa investiti "masiv" pt.a avea cabane in munti. De ce nu o fac=
eti? "Cum se putea =C8=99i acum nu se mai poate?" Pana la urma asta era int=
rebarea/problema...=C2=A0-------Aveti idee ce inseamna acea investitie? Va=
spun eu: un refugiu durabil construit, nu adus cu elicopterul si montat un=
deva, costa undeva in jurul a 10.000 de euro. Ori, acum cate cluburi au mem=
bri care sa isi permita o astfel de investitie?
Si intrebarea ar trebui pusa altfel: in loc de =E2=80=9DDe ce nu o faceti?=
=E2=80=9D intrebati-va =E2=80=9DDe ce nu o facem?=E2=80=9D Eu va spun ca se=
poate, dovada sunt (nu este meritul meu, dar trebuie sa ii pun in evidenta=
!) refacerea refugiului Strunga din Bucegi si refugiul in constructie din s=
aua Florei, muntii Baiului, lucrari facute de oameni inimosi de la =E2=80=
=9DOm pe munte=E2=80=9D. Mai sunt si alte refugii care se construiesc pentr=
u public. Acum imi vin in minte refugiul din saua =E2=80=9DLa Carti=E2=80=
=9D din Rodnei, refugiul din lemn de sub saua Turneanu din Cozia, refugiul =
Piscul cu Brazi din Buila si refugiile din Capatanii. Cum s-au refacut caba=
na refugiul Canaia din Cindrel si Piatra Mare din masivul omonim...-------E=
u imi mentin ideea ca nu prea mai e nevoie, ca altfel ne adunam si strangea=
m bani pt.ele. In Alpi chiar e nevoie de cabane & refugii. E alta situatie =
acolo.-------Este nevoie. D-asta noi inca ne mai =E2=80=9Dcazam=E2=80=9D ia=
rna prin stane sau mergem cu cortul si strainii vin la noi fiindca aici au =
mai multa libertate pe munte si este mult mai ieftin. Am fost multi prin It=
alia, Austria, Germania, Elvetia, Croatia, Slovacia, Norvegia, Franta (ca s=
a nu mai zic in afara Europei) si am vazut la ce nivel se face montanismul =
acolo.=C2=A0-------In plus, pe vremuri doar elitele isi permiteau sa mearga=
pe munti, iar acestia aveau grija de refugii/cabane. Acum oricine poate aj=
unge pe munte... De aceea sunt/erau refugii secrete in Piatra Craiului. Ci=
ne mai are chef sa dea bani pt.ceva ce risca sa fie rapid invadat & degrada=
t de "nechemati"-------Refugiile secrete din Crai nu au nici o legatura cu=
elitele din acea vreme. Va rog sa va documentati.=C2=A0
Doar elitele construiau cabane? Cititi istoria SKV si veti vedea ca membrii=
erau din toate paturile sociale, nu neaparat elitele (cei cu putere financ=
iara).=C2=A0
Atata timp cat vedeti totul doar din punct de vedere economic, nu veti pute=
a intelege daruirea celor ca au facut/fac refugii si cabane. Va inteleg pun=
ctul de vedere, dar nu asta i-a manat pe toti sa faca adaposturi/refugii/ca=
bane in trecut.-------=C2=A0Cele bune, Mircea Puia-------Numai bine, Cezar Pa=
rtheniu - care maine merge pe munte sa construiasca, nu sa comenteze #yiv=
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<div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family: Helvetica Neue=
, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size: 16px"><div><br></di=
v><div class=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507572189810_23124" style=3D"display: block;"> <div=
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, san=
s-serif; font-size: 16px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507572189810_23123"> <d=
iv style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, L=
ucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507572=
189810_23122"> <div dir=3D"ltr" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507572189810_23121=
"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507572189810_23=
120"> <hr size=3D"1"> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>=
"mdp727@yahoo.com [alpinet2k]" &lt;alpinet2k@yahoogroups.com&gt;<br> <b><s=
pan style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> alpinet2k@yahoogroups.com <=
br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, October =
9, 2017 3: 22 PM<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></=
b> Re: [a] Re: Cum se putea =C8=99i acum nu se mai poate =E2=80=93 Om pe m=
unt e<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym=
19_1_1507572189810_23127"><div id=3D"yiv3943037596"><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_y=
m19_1_1507572189810_23126"><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"pos=
ition: relative;"><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;"><di=
v id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrp-text"><div class=3D"yiv3943037596ygroups-quoted" =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507572189810_23125"><br></div><div class=3D"yiv394=
3037596ygroups-quoted" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507572189810_23125">Salut R=
adu!</div><div class=3D"yiv3943037596ygroups-quoted" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_=
1_1507572189810_23128"><br clear=3D"none">---In alpinet2k@yahoogroups.com, =
&lt;office@...&gt; wrote:</div><div class=3D"yiv3943037596ygroups-quoted" =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507572189810_23132"><br clear=3D"none"><div id=3D"=
yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">&gt; Refugiile "de creasta / de supravie=
tuire" sunt pt adapostire pe vreme f. proasta neprevazuta, cand sunt surpri=
nsi unii plecati in tura de o zi, fara cort la ei, sau surprinsi de noapte,=
sau pt cei care au campat in apropiere si furtuna le darama / rupe cortul.=
... Nu sunt pt cazare&nbsp;gratis programata...&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"yiv39=
43037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div id=3D"yiv394303=
7596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">Da, dar cine ii opreste pe cei care vor sa le fol=
oseasca "<span style=3D"word-spacing: normal;">pt cazare</span><span style=
=3D"word-spacing: normal;">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"word-spacing: normal;"=
>gratis programata"</span></div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-18683462=
76"><span style=3D"word-spacing: normal;">-------</span></div><div id=3D"yiv=
3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276"><span style=3D"word-spacing: normal;" id=3D"=
yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1507572189810_23445">Nu ii opreste nimeni. De fapt si eu =
mi-am planuit multe ture in care sa dorm in vreun refugiu. Alta e ideea si =
asta tine de bunul simt: chiar daca iti planuiesti sa dormi la un refugiu, =
cand vine cineva care foloseste refugiul ca loc de refugiere in caz de vrem=
e proasta etc (ce a spus Radu), ii/le faci loc si eventual ii ajuti cu ceva=
mancare calda sau cu haine uscate (cat ai). Asta inseamna sa fii =E2=80=9D=
om de/pe munte=E2=80=9D.</span></div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868=
346276">-------</div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">&gt;...=
cea mai mare parte dintre cabane nu PRODUC ci CONSUMA, fiid masiv subventi=
onate de cluburile alpine care le detin. Ideea ca o cabana turistica montan=
a de principiu ar trebui sa fie rentabila este o grava neintelegere...</di=
v><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276"><br clear=3D"none"></div><d=
iv id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">Ok, deci, daca bine inteleg exp=
licatia ta, tu/CCN + alte cluburi din domeniu, ar trebui sa investiti "masi=
v" pt.a avea cabane in munti. De ce nu o faceti? "Cum se putea =C8=99i acum=
nu se mai poate?" Pana la urma asta era intrebarea/problema...&nbsp;</div=
><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">-------</div><div id=3D"yiv3=
943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">Aveti idee ce inseamna acea investitie? Va s=
pun eu: un refugiu durabil construit, nu adus cu elicopterul si montat unde=
va, costa undeva in jurul a 10.000 de euro. Ori, acum cate cluburi au membr=
i care sa isi permita o astfel de investitie?</div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596=
ygrps-yiv-1868346276"><br></div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-186834627=
6" dir=3D"ltr">Si intrebarea ar trebui pusa altfel: in loc de =E2=80=9DDe c=
e nu o faceti?=E2=80=9D intrebati-va =E2=80=9DDe ce nu o facem?=E2=80=9D Eu=
va spun ca se poate, dovada sunt (nu este meritul meu, dar trebuie sa ii p=
un in evidenta!) refacerea refugiului Strunga din Bucegi si refugiul in con=
structie din saua Florei, muntii Baiului, lucrari facute de oameni inimosi =
de la =E2=80=9DOm pe munte=E2=80=9D. Mai sunt si alte refugii care se const=
ruiesc pentru public. Acum imi vin in minte refugiul din saua =E2=80=9DLa C=
arti=E2=80=9D din Rodnei, refugiul din lemn de sub saua Turneanu din Cozia,=
refugiul Piscul cu Brazi din Buila si refugiile din Capatanii. Cum s-au re=
facut cabana refugiul Canaia din Cindrel si Piatra Mare din masivul omonim.=
..</div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276" dir=3D"ltr">-------</=
div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">Eu imi mentin ideea ca nu=
prea mai e nevoie, ca altfel ne adunam si strangeam bani pt.ele. In Alpi c=
hiar e nevoie de cabane &amp; refugii. E alta situatie acolo.</div><div id=
=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">-------</div><div id=3D"yiv394303759=
6ygrps-yiv-1868346276" dir=3D"ltr">Este nevoie. D-asta noi inca ne mai =E2=
=80=9Dcazam=E2=80=9D iarna prin stane sau mergem cu cortul si strainii vin =
la noi fiindca aici au mai multa libertate pe munte si este mult mai ieftin=
. Am fost multi prin Italia, Austria, Germania, Elvetia, Croatia, Slovacia,=
Norvegia, Franta (ca sa nu mai zic in afara Europei) si am vazut la ce niv=
el se face montanismul acolo.&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-=
1868346276" dir=3D"ltr">-------</div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868=
346276">In plus, pe vremuri doar elitele isi permiteau sa mearga pe munti, =
iar acestia aveau grija de refugii/cabane. Acum oricine poate ajunge pe mun=
te... De aceea sunt/erau refugii secrete in Piatra Craiului. Cine mai are =
chef sa dea bani pt.ceva ce risca sa fie rapid invadat &amp; degradat de "n=
echemati"</div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">-------</div>=
<div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">Refugiile secrete din Crai nu=
au nici o legatura cu elitele din acea vreme. Va rog sa va documentati.&nb=
sp;</div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276"><br></div><div id=3D=
"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">Doar elitele construiau cabane? Cititi =
istoria SKV si veti vedea ca membrii erau din toate paturile sociale, nu ne=
aparat elitele (cei cu putere financiara).&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"yiv3943037=
596ygrps-yiv-1868346276"><br></div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-186834=
6276">Atata timp cat vedeti totul doar din punct de vedere economic, nu vet=
i putea intelege daruirea celor ca au facut/fac refugii si cabane. Va intel=
eg punctul de vedere, dar nu asta i-a manat pe toti sa faca adaposturi/refu=
gii/cabane in trecut.</div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">--=
-----&nbsp;</div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">Cele bune,</=
div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">Mircea Puia</div><div id=
=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1868346276">-------</div><div id=3D"yiv394303759=
6ygrps-yiv-1868346276">Numai bine,</div><div id=3D"yiv3943037596ygrps-yiv-1=
868346276">Cezar Partheniu - care maine merge pe munte sa construiasca, nu =
sa comenteze</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div> </div> </div> =
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<hr style=3D"height: 2px; border-width: 0; color:#E3E3E3; backgroun=
d-color:#E3E3E3;">
Posted by: partheniu cezar &lt;cezarpart@yahoo.com&gt; <hr=
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